Comments on: Teaching Speaking to Second Language Learners http://www.wal.org/wordpress/index.php/2009/03/23/teaching-speaking-to-second-language-learners/ News and Information from the oldest nonprofit language school in Seattle, WA! Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:10:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: Dr. Paul Schneider http://www.wal.org/wordpress/index.php/2009/03/23/teaching-speaking-to-second-language-learners/#comment-414 Dr. Paul Schneider Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:10:49 +0000 http://www.wal.org/wordpress/index.php/2009/03/23/teaching-speaking-to-second-language-learners/#comment-414 Dr. Lovell’s second sentence does not seem to follow from his first. For children, academic language tends to be learned in the classroom. Informal second language may be picked up in a playground as a first grader. A first grader learns his second language informally in a playground just as a first language speaker increases his vocabulary that way while playing with friends. That is the way it is with children and language. As for the second sentence, not everyone is blessed with Dr. Lovell’s education. This doesn’t mean that adults talk like children; it means they may not be educated. Maybe they are refugees and have to earn a living in the U.S. There are people in this world who are perfectly happy and they are not literate and they speak well enough in languages having a written form. So therefore the answer to Dr. Lovell’s first question is e.g. perhaps they opened a convenience store instead of pursuing an education. People like to eat. I do not understand the second question although I imagine Dr. Lovell’s English has improved because he is quite educated and will continue to challenge himself the rest of his days. Sadly, this is not true of many people. Hence, his last question rests on a false assumption if I understand it all. The brief answer to the second paragraph is that the written language differs from the spoken. For example, in the written language the educated writer tends to use subordination while in speech the same person would use coordination. The second language learner doesn’t necessarily recognize register (level of formality) differences. So if the student is planning to go to a university it is important that the student have some familiarity with levels of formality in English, for example. Separation is one way to achieve this recognition with second language learners. I am sure Dr. Lovell has read an undergraduate paper or two where his student didn’t know the difference between formal and informal writing. – Dr. Paul Schneider, Director of Teacher Education Programs, WAL Dr. Lovell’s second sentence does not seem to follow from his first. For children, academic language tends to be learned in the classroom. Informal second language may be picked up in a playground as a first grader. A first grader learns his second language informally in a playground just as a first language speaker increases his vocabulary that way while playing with friends. That is the way it is with children and language. As for the second sentence, not everyone is blessed with Dr. Lovell’s education. This doesn’t mean that adults talk like children; it means they may not be educated. Maybe they are refugees and have to earn a living in the U.S. There are people in this world who are perfectly happy and they are not literate and they speak well enough in languages having a written form. So therefore the answer to Dr. Lovell’s first question is e.g. perhaps they opened a convenience store instead of pursuing an education. People like to eat. I do not understand the second question although I imagine Dr. Lovell’s English has improved because he is quite educated and will continue to challenge himself the rest of his days. Sadly, this is not true of many people. Hence, his last question rests on a false assumption if I understand it all.

The brief answer to the second paragraph is that the written language differs from the spoken. For example, in the written language the educated writer tends to use subordination while in speech the same person would use coordination. The second language learner doesn’t necessarily recognize register (level of formality) differences. So if the student is planning to go to a university it is important that the student have some familiarity with levels of formality in English, for example. Separation is one way to achieve this recognition with second language learners. I am sure Dr. Lovell has read an undergraduate paper or two where his student didn’t know the difference between formal and informal writing.

– Dr. Paul Schneider, Director of Teacher Education Programs, WAL

]]> By: John Lovell http://www.wal.org/wordpress/index.php/2009/03/23/teaching-speaking-to-second-language-learners/#comment-405 John Lovell Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:31:51 +0000 http://www.wal.org/wordpress/index.php/2009/03/23/teaching-speaking-to-second-language-learners/#comment-405 It seems relevant to add what Dr. Schneider told me in a previous discussion. Students often learn fluency without accuracy and never change. So people who have spoken English as a second language for many years still sound like children with their lack of adult accuracy. Why would it be that second language learners do not continue to improve their accuracy after they master functional fluency? Or conversely why do first language learners continue to increase their accuracy? One of the points made above is that oral tasks should differ from written tasks in general. But it seems to me as though much of oral accuracy is a copy of written accuracy. Do second language speakers with accuracy problems have the same sort of problems in both oral and written production and reception? If so a learner may want to focus in a direction which is not optimal in the experience of the teacher. It seems relevant to add what Dr. Schneider told me in a previous discussion. Students often learn fluency without accuracy and never change. So people who have spoken English as a second language for many years still sound like children with their lack of adult accuracy. Why would it be that second language learners do not continue to improve their accuracy after they master functional fluency? Or conversely why do first language learners continue to increase their accuracy?

One of the points made above is that oral tasks should differ from written tasks in general. But it seems to me as though much of oral accuracy is a copy of written accuracy. Do second language speakers with accuracy problems have the same sort of problems in both oral and written production and reception? If so a learner may want to focus in a direction which is not optimal in the experience of the teacher.

]]>